In a video recorded speach on the ten commandments, Richard Dawkins suggested that should you actually ever meet someone who gets all their morals from the ten commandments, that you should give them a wide berth, and I think that if this is true then we should know all of the signs and symptoms, and why, so that we can avoid them…if not true, the same would apply as well…only without the avoidance part that is, of course…Well perhaps we should examine the morals taught within the “Old Testement” mmkay?
#1 “I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery”… okay…prove it. No really…”Well I sent down all those plagues…”Yeah, about that…The first born male of everything? Really? Why did the calves get it? were you hungry for a lot of veal or something? BTW did you by chance, kill the first born males of all the Nile crockadiles? because those things are a pain! Always grumpy and hungry…not a good combination if you ask me…you really should have off`d one or two of those guys. “well I hardened Pharoh’s heart…” ….yeah so you took away his freewill did ya? and that’s supposed to be a good thing? How do I know that you won’t take away My freewill if you decide that you want to? huh? It’s not like you haven’t already set a precidence in the matter now is it? “Well I didn’t take away Eve’s freewill now did I?” No, no you didn’t…even when you knew that she had no concept of good and evil…because she hadn’t eaten of the tree of “Knowlage of Good and Evil” yet…”well yes exactly..” So you punished all of mankind for a single woman’s unknowing mistake. ..or am I missing something here? “look are you going to worship me or not”? WORSHIP!? We haven’t even established that you are real yet! “well, you are talking to me..” Am I? I also had some rather “iffy” looking bread a while back with a side of mushrooms…might just be ergot poisoning or a really bad trip… but go on make your case…
“Well, how about the whole bloody universe is all” What about it? “What about it?” yes, what about it? “well, I only created the whole bloody thing, that’s all”… Prove it…”prove it?” yes, prove it…look do you have to keep repeating what I say? Prove it.
“well, look right here in my book, it says so right there in the beginning…”
So no REAL proof at all then?…
Are babies atheist, are rocks atheist
Short answer yes, no. Now let me expain why…Atheism is quite literaly “NOT theism”, theism however is the belief in some, actually ANY infact supernatural being, usually of the type that for the meager price of having ownership of some mysterious energy body that lives within you but gets freed at your death, for an infinity of time to begin immediately following your body death, for good or for ill, for torture or reward, can and hopefully will magically intervene in the physical laws of the universe, and cause good things to happen to and for you in an adventageous manner…as a matter of fact, atheism is precisely NOT THAT.
Now I will argue that babies have no concept of god yet, therefore that particular little box is not checked yay or nay yet…
which CLEARLY places them in the camp of “NOT THEIST” or not having that belief…yet… Now I would argue that if you should ever open that particular schroedinger’s box, THEN they would be able to make a choice of yay or nay…but until then they are by default nay, simply by the fact of not having to ever ask that question of themselves.
Rocks however are a differant story…rocks you see do not have the capacity to make ANY choices.They cannot believe in anything. Rocks are not self aware, or indeed living. While that, by default, means that they have no beliefs in gods, it is only because they are not by definition “living”, self aware, or capable of having any beliefs whatsoever.
I find it interesting to note that it could quite easily be argued that xians believe that rocks and indeed all things (and certainly all people …because we just choose to not WANT to believe, but you know that we all really do don’tchaknow?) are theistic…That being that Jesus claimed once that if a crowd of people should stop cheering him, that the very rocks and stones themselves would shout his name…and that all things in creation were created, by god, for his enjoyment, worship, edification and praise and that the entire universe calls out to him (god)…except mosquitoes of course..oh and flys ..ooh I hate flys…and black holes which I’m sure are really entrances to hell that all the demons use to escape and come to earth and ….WOW is that silly…
too bad I’ve actually heard it before, isn’t it?…
“I mean, with one’s parents, after a few preliminary skirmishes over sago pudding and stewed Rhubarb, one settles down into a humdrum if amicable relationshp” Bertie Wooster
Though I do note that apparently that opinion is not in the majority of thepopulus…?? Yah, I know….”Scary but True” kind of stuff…Does “Ripley`s” know this? Is this one of those genetic things?
Does anybody remember the “cent” key? I mean on typewriter keys…I distinctly remember there being a cent key…I’m pretty sure that it sat happily above the 2 where @ now sits…
So a cursery research proves my theory only partialy correct, the “cent sign” while it did exist, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cent_(currency) was not relpaced by the “@” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/@ It was replaced by the caret ^ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/@ which is actually pretty good for me because while had thought that I remembered seeing the @ key in typing class on my IBM selectric, and thinking “when the F*ck am I going to use THAT key?”I wasn’t completely sure…because quite honestly, before the internet how many of YOU ever used the @ key either? Well neither did I…So yes it did exist, but just how many of you barely, if at all, noticed it missing? It’s not like typing .25c or even 25c, was any less understood to mean the same thing.
An interesting question for christians is…If the words of jesus (god made man)Were deemed so imortant, why do we only have cherry picked quotes and not entire sermans. Why these quotes and not others? I mean seriously we have entire letters from Paul, 11 of them! From Jesus himself we get practically squat in comparison. Seriously you could fit the words of Jesus on less than half a dozen pages, from Paul 11 fucking letters totalling 93 pages! Really, you should call yourself Paulians or Paulites or even fucking Paulines but considering the whole of his input into the whole of Christain teachings and doctorine, the absofuckinglutly last dammed thing that you should call yourselves is Christians. This is of course assuming that you even picked the correct “christ/os” or Messiah, I mean according to historians it is not as if Messiahs and religious leaders were exactly in shortage.
Simon bar Kokhba,the commander of a revolt, was acclaimed as a Messiah, a heroic figure who could restore Israel.; Simon of Peraea or Simon son of Joseph was a former slave of Herod the Great who rebelled and was killed by the Romans in 4 BC. He has been identified as the messiah of Gabriel’s Revelation. He is mentioned by Flavius Josephus.;In fact history is full of claimants of messiah or even godhood. What makes yours any different than any body else’s? And if you say that he rose from the dead I am going to not only name the other dozen odd godheads and deities that supposedly had and predate Jesus by up to several thousand years, but I am going to demand other than “biblical” proof and a vague feeling in YOUR chest area, as proof of that claim…and even then you STILL haven’t proved that he was A messiah much less THE messiah.
My mother used to tell me about John Lennon’s infamous statement about being more popular than God/Jesus/the church…depending on which version of the story that you heard (or just go watch actual footage here…) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cs9m_G41fH0) Her version of the story had God punishing the Beatles for “vanity” and setting themselves up as idols to be worshiped rather than YHVH by “taking away their popularity”…
Whatever happened to free will? Were they popular because you (YHVH) “made” people like them? The question is not “if you admit/claim to remove our free will (because you do…Numerous times!), but just how much you will admit/claim influence over.
My version of the story has John Lennon making a factual statement concerning their popularity in Brittan. John had been told that on a recent poll, the Beatles had been ranked higher in popularity than the Anglican church…(actually not really that big of a surprise as nowadays the Anglican church holds all the popularity of of a D&C or prostate exam.ie something to be endured for peace of mind, but never particularly enjoyed.) and then simply restated it as “In England, we are more popular than Jesus.” A bit off, but overall a pretty accurate statement. For which, a bunch of xenophobic/homophobic/Beatlephobic?/ignorant/bigoted/religious nutcases in the American south (always a hotbed of academic excellence…) took offense.
Imagine the sheer unmitigated GAUL! To make a factual statement that goes all kinds of sideways to what these idiots think. Jesus is Superman to these people. Nothing can ever be allowed to sully his image, or at least the one that we think that he should have, even if it is true…actually most especially if it is true. What next, the Earth revolves around the sun? Well at least we always have the fairies and dragons…
We’ve all seen one…”The Nativity Scene”, whether on the front lawn of a church or on a mantle place or even under a Christmas Tree. They are all pretty much the same with a few minor differences here and there. Western style pole barn with open pens. Cow, gotta have one of those…sheep, maybe a goat or two…but mostly sheep…Angel, gotta have an angel, probably carrying one of those big ribbon banners with something or other written on it proclaiming this birth story to be holy canon…
Obviously of course we need Joseph (preferably one that doesn’t mind getting sloppy seconds from “God” and holding off on getting laid for 9 plus months until he does get to “enjoy” sex with his wife, who’s reputation, along with his own had been sullied at the behest and for the satisfaction of this god….Top that you mortal human! ).
And of course we need a Mary, Perhaps one a bit on the slutty side, I don’t want to have to shoot this thing twice and experience counts. Let me know if you think of any pregnant sluts now okay…
Okay, the three wise men, aren’t they considered part of the basic set? and last but not least a manger with baby Jesus.
First off, the little drummer boy…never mentioned in the bible. It is a case of fiction becoming popular myth. It began with a song of that title. It was recorded in 1955 by the Trapp Family Singers and further popularized by a 1958 recording by the Harry Simeone Chorale. Later versions of the song led to it becoming a popular claymation. The song was adapted into an animated television special by Rankin/Bass. The special was followed by a sequel in 1976.
The shepherds…yeah Luke 2:16 purports them to be there. Though I highly doubt that they would have brought their flock with them. Moving a couple of hundred sheep is no small task in the day time. At night time it would be a recipe for losing half your flock and being fined by the Romans, and since no mention mention of a gift or sacrifice is made…nix the sheep. Have you ever tried to move a few hundred sheep? Stupid beasts, and smelly as well, almost as bad as shepherds…
Likewise the angel, it came to the shepards in the field and no further mention of it is made.
The Magi…the three wise men, the three kings, most likely zoroastrian astrologers, though in all honesty “Wise men from the East” is a bit vague and could even mean Chinese. They read the stars for signs of things to come. Omens and foreshadowing, Prophacies and miracles. but stars don’t exactly move very quickly, they are millions or even 13.7 billion light years away. They can even be entire galaxies, rather than single balls of compressed hydrogen undergoimg fission and converting it to heavier elements.
The most likely suspect for our “star” is acually a passing asteroid or comet.. it is not known for “hovering” over cities however, EXCEPT in the possibility that either due to it’s orbital proximity or because of a secondary interaction with another near earth object, it is thrust into our atmosphere at such an angle that it began to very slowly burn up, as it skimmed through our outer atmosphere. Then at the presise moment that the Magi reach Bethlehem, the angle is increased, thus slowing the object and causing it to appear to hover. Of course the added friction will also cause the object to eventually light up white hot before releasing it’s energy in a Tunguska style blast. So maybe not so much of a good thing then? but have it your way and keep the “Star of Bethlehem” .
Unless they came from the next hill over to the east, the wise men most likely arrived weeks or even months after the event in question. . probably by camel. BTW, did it EVER fucking occur to you that by using the “three wise men from the east who followed a start to see the future “king of the jews”, that now you have to either accept astrology and whatever the hell it was religion/occultism as somewhat valid, for identifying your “christ” as a child as being an important figure, and somehow work that whole “king of the Jews” part up a bit…or say that three traveling guys were looking for somebody and got the wrong address but left gifts there anyway because Mary and Joseph were too polite to tell them any differant, besides who can understand foreigners anyway, why can’t they all learn aramaic? so…, don’t really mean anything to the overall premise of the story whatsoever, now do they?
And as for this baby defeating the massively violent and overly complicated designs of satan to destroy him before he can become “the saviour” by out running Herod’s troops and a planned massacre most especially of his personage as an infant…
Let me introduce you to ..
“The Gospel of the Rebuttal of Sr. Wolf”
2:1 And it came to pass within that hour that Mary had given birth, that a legionere named Flavious, who was among the Romans who counted the jews returning to thier birthplace, did come out from the baths where he had been inbibing in drink and debauchery of the type which did condem Sodom and Gemorah, in the sight of our Lord. 2. Seeking a private place to relieve himself he came across Mary and Joseph at the manger, their newborn baby wrapped in swaddling cloth and laying in the animal food trough. 3.Then he was overcome with anger. Why dost thou place thy newborn child in a manger soiled bybeasts? Art thou no better than beasts thyself? 5. Is this son of man but a beast for foder apon a Roman cross? 6. Why did Rome feel it necessary to take me from my own beasts to watch over human ones such as these?
” He is the Messiah, the Lamb of God, born to die for our sins” Mary said. “He is God made flesh, in the womb of a virgin” spaketh Joseph. 7. Flavious then did unsheath his sword and proclaim, “Well, no more, No more will I suffer for people who act little better than cattle. It is Finished” and plunged his sword down into and through the small body, before withdrawing it and cutting off it’s head, 8.in front of it’s startled parents.. 9.
Then he did turn round apon Joseph, his anger still not queched and put him to the sword as well, Proclaiming “so endeth the line of man as ignorant beast”
.10 While Joseph lay there before he did die, the Lord showed him Flavious uncovering his newly delivered wife and bespoiling her womb,11. and the lord did let him hear her cries of anguish for her newly delivered child and screaming tearfull pleas out to a deaf and indifferant God to “Let it end”.
*[Editor’s Note]* THAT my friend is how you kill off a potential messiah! Couple of these and a Messiah is the LAST thing anybody will want! Pax Tyranus! That is how “Satan” would do it. No pomp, no ceremony, Death, Death, Death…No more messiahs…Ever! Not that cheesey “send a whole army to kill one baby” kind of crap. Just one lunatic or even a guy that’s having a bad night…a guy that was too close to the edge to begin with…just your average, generally unnoticed, nothing stands out, kind of “Joe”, who deep inside is harboring years of resentment, guilt, anger, frustration, and a general desire to make the people who caused it all to go away permenantly…with a knife…add a little lead sweetened wine for lubrication…and shove. Then get rid of all the evidence…
12. Found guilty for the crime Flavious was set as an example and Whipped, beaten, and spat apon by his fellow legionaires, 12b because he had assumed the right of Ceaser, the right to decide between life and death, his century did place a crown of thorns apon his head and wedge it down apon his brow until his blood did run.13.Flavious hung for his crime on a cross on the hill called Golgotha, for it looked like a skull and was the place of execution, just outside of Jerusalem, which was the home headquarters of his unit. 13.Although the Roman Prefect did set gaurds apon the body, there were those out of the land of Judea, men of another legion, who did set about to take Flavious’s body and treat it as the Traditions and Legion regulations say that it should be.
Whense it did come that time of night that they planned to steal his body away, they sent forth a man to see if they might know who it might be. Apon spying Romulus standing at the tomb, Apontes the man sent by Josephus, returned saying “Hail to to Ceaser, it is the brother of Remus that stands gaurd tonight”.
14. And having obtained the body of Flavious they did carry it out away from the city into the wild lands,15. and in a clearing in a grove of wild acacia trees did build four stone alters, in the center of which they placed a stone table nine cubits by 2 cubits and 2 cubits high, as Moses instructed us to do. Then they did take Flavious’s body and laying it apon the table did quarter it.16. Then they did call forth lepers to carry the pieces each to differant alter and spit apon them.
17. Painting the pieces with bitumen and pine resin, and adorning them with goose feathers, the men annointed the pieces of the body of Flavious with Naptha and holy oil before they set them alight to warn the wicked of heart and rid the earth utterly of those who break roman law. 18.The body burned to ash, the bones scattered among the wild animals to devour. Rome eliminates any trace of his existance, before editing, reinventing and reviving the cult once again under a unified banner of Flaviousism, 19. Flavious’s last words were “Look, it had to be done, it just had to be done is all…for humanity’s sake it had to be done…”
Michaelangelo’s famous and controversial painting “Flavious raping Mary” is said to be most probably the most acurate portrayal. The bright red fresh blood coating the holy one’s phallus and flowing from Mary’s freshly broken, newly delivered virginity, as compaired to the dark pooling blood steadily flowing from Joseph, the lack of which has left him able to do little more than watch or close his eyes even as Flavious rapes his newly delivered virgin wife, his face struck with the real horror of hell.
While it is true that Joseph looks old enough to be her father, probably in his early to mid thirties, and while she apears to be between the age of 13 and 14 that we are told was the custom of the time, a man would first make his career before getting married, thus hopefully allowing him to get a better wife from a better family, thus merging the two lineages into one and hopefully bringing yourself along a bit for the ride, the riggors of being a wife and mother, in those times were significant, so younger heartier stock is desired, as well, it allowed a longer exposure time during the times that she is fertile and able to bring forth a male heir, and in no way related to pedophilia in any manner…right…anybody else not buying this? Anyway the youthfull twenty something Flavious is well up to the task of defiling Mary, and sports a horse’s member between his legs.
A letter from paul quotes “and all who barracked with him knew the truth of the statement “nary but a mare should take Flavious the legionaire full on”. Much specultaion surrounds the question of why Favious is depicted with a single tear on his cheek.
Another noted oddity is the snake which is hanging down from the tree limb outside the window and wraps itself arround Flavious’s leg before biting his scrotum. The snakes’s head is the face of Cardinal Richelou. I’m not quite sure what that means but it can’t be good.
Most likely the tray of bread, fruit and cheeses along with the Amphere of wine, would have been prepared by Mary so that Joseph sould not go hungry while he awaited the birth. By tradition it will be fresh bread, dates, fresh fruit, a new cheese and new wine.
Does anybody else find it insulting that a “GOD” would need to take a man’s betrothed and empregnate her without either her or her betrothed’s concent, then to furthermore expect and tell the husband to accept , raise and support as his own child the offspring of his diety, without any further financial input….and then neglect to ever mention Joseph again…come on! at least give the guy a plug in “The Judean Guide to Carpentry Contractors”, he’s raising your kid, it’s the least that you could do… maybe toss him and the boy one of those sweet, cush “Emperor’s Local Palace” government jobs. Come on, don’t be a “Deadbeat Dad”.
Regardless of what the sales literature says, “Sacrificial Godhead/Messiah” doesn’t have a very good retirement plan.